title="Hinton Charterhouse Parish Council in Somerset"

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How can we best deal with traffic travelling too fast through the village?


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posted by Fraser on 3 December, 2013 at 11:46PM

A simple and effective first move might be to put the small white "picket fences" on each side of the roads leading into the village. I notice Norton St Philip has them, they provide a good "gateway" feel.


posted by Chris Clemence on 4 December, 2013 at 2:50PM

I hope we have a prices for the installation of the white fences at the next PC meeting. With any luck it will be something we can do within parish funds.



I see Norton St Phillip has now had the dangerous chicanes removed in place of what i think are called 'tables'. Something perhaps we should consider in our design statement.


posted by Stephanie Cole on 5 December, 2013 at 6:07PM

Please, please, please can we have , at the very least a meeting with as many of the village who are interested , about the two very important things which are and will affect us all - The Post Office and how we can ensure its continued existence and Traffic Calming. It is becoming increasingly obvious that something must be put in place. Cant we at least have a meeting about both these subjects?


posted by Alistair Kellock on 17 January, 2014 at 12:06PM

When considering various measures I sincerely hope that due consideration is given to Wellow lane. The absence of any pavement and the speed many vehicles choose to enter and leave the village along this lane is potentially very dangerous - a situation sure to be worsened with the A36 closure in March, forcing increased traffic though the village.


posted by Chris Clemence on 19 January, 2014 at 2:17PM

I think it is safe to say that any consideration given to traffic calming will apply to all the entrances to the village and indeed to our part of Midford.



With regard to Green Lane in particular and the mention of the pavement; there was a move to have a pavment put in some years back and the residents of Green Lane argued strongly against it as it would preclude on street parking and was contrary to the rural nature of the area.



With regard to the A36 closure it will be interesting what happens, last time it was shut the road blocks put in on the southern parts of the A36 were very effective and the B3110 was in fact quieter than usual - completely the contrary to what most expected. We will see.



All of this will be part of the local plan that the PC will be working on this year and it is certainly the intentuion that the community will make its contribution.


posted by Nick paige on 19 January, 2014 at 4:04PM

<p>The traffic calming measures in Norton seem to work very well. Could we not have the same thing in Hinton .</p>
posted by Geoff Parkes on 19 January, 2014 at 5:55PM

For information: I asked the Clerk in Norton St Philip and found that the gate - traffic calming scheme was paid for by Bloor Homes as part of their agreement to build at Fortescue Fields. Somerset Highways Dept had to approve the installation. I put the question to B&NES Highways Dept before Christmas about what rules applied but as yet have heard nothing (partly I'm not surprised as they have their hands full with emergency flood repairs at the moment). I will phone them again on Monday before our next Council Meeting and ask again.


posted by Emma B on 19 January, 2014 at 6:49PM

Can the Parish Council also consider the red reflective triangles we can put on the sides of our cars? They have them in Norton.



Plus the '20s Plenty' signs they have in Freshford?



Surely these would be free from Banes and some small measure before the much needed white fences and possible sleeping policemen?



Thanks


posted by Chris Clemence on 20 January, 2014 at 10:12AM

I am not sure that I have seen these red reflective triangles for cars - I will detour through Norton one day and have a look. As to whether they are free we will ask.



We do not have a 20 mph limit as yet (applied for some time back though) so I am not sure of the legality of a 20 Plenty sign is. I do know though that the 20mph limit, for example in Wellow, is not considered enforceable by the police. My personal opinion, and not that necessarily of the Council, is that I am against the visual pollution caused by excessive signage and would need to be convinced of its effectiveness. Hinton does suffer from its straight through road whereas Freshford does not have this feature.


posted by Chris Clemence on 26 January, 2014 at 10:33PM

I have been looking out for these triangle-me-bobs for car doors and saw one the other day in Bathampton. What I have not been able to find out is where you get them from; there is nothing that I can find on the BANES web site nor can I see anything via Google (other search engines are available).



Does anybody know what they re called and where they can be obtained?


posted by Peter Wheelhouse on 3 February, 2014 at 2:53PM

I was wondering whether it would be possible to have a 20 mph speed limit for parts of the B3110 through Midford and Hinton Charterhouse, specifically where there are houses bordering or in close proximity to the road.



I have noticed that, in other parts of Bath, where the roads are narrow or are missing proper footpaths (e.g. Greenway Lane), there are 20 mph speed limits.



In Hinton, particularly between the Memorial Hall and The Stag, the road is quite narrow in places, is missing full footpaths and has houses, & therefore pedestrians, in close proximity to the traffic on the road.



In Midford, we have (or will have) a footpath on only one side of the road, which is, in places, quite narrow. Further, after the works to move the footpath across Midford bridge, an already sharp bend at the bridge is likely to be even sharper. It is also worth noting that the bus stop on the way into Midford from Bath drops people off directly on the road (no footpath) and it is pure luck that no-one has been seriously injured there.



I appreciate that just having a 20 mph speed limit won’t necessarily make drivers stick to the speed limit but it is likely to stimulate some to drive a bit slower and be a bit more careful.



I think that I read somewhere that B&NES was looking to introduce more 20 mph zones. The B3110 through Midford and Hinton Charterhouse would be, in my view, a good place to start. The road is, I believe, the responsibility of B&NES and not the Highways Agency, so it should be within the discretion of the Council to introduce such a limit. The cost is likely to be relatively nominal; a few signs and road markings.



For Midford, I think the stretch of road between Eric Snook’s house and where the daffodils start would be a good candidate for 20 mph, though others may have differing views on where would be best.


posted by Cllr Neil Butters on 3 February, 2014 at 3:01PM

Copy of email sent by Cllr Neil Butters to Louise Fradd at BANES:



Hi Louise



Pete makes an interesting point. I gather that the police are now more amenable to contemplating, and indeed enforcing, 20 mph limits now.



Midford has a history of certain people at least speeding through, crossing white lines, etc.



Would there be anything to stop us simply putting up 20 mph signs in Midford - without speed humps etc - and seeing what happened? Maybe as a trial? This is assuming that the local parish councils supported such a move?



Regards



Neil



Cllr Neil Butters


posted by Peter Wheelhouse on 3 February, 2014 at 3:25PM

The need for street lights & traffic calming before 20mph limits can be introduced sounds like a bureaucratic reason for doing nothing, or for getting a bigger budget for the work! I can think of no case that would link them as mandatory requirement.



I do realise that enforcement of 20mph may be problematic, particularly in Midford where the Police won't enforce the 30mph limit because, so I have been told, it is too dangerous for their officers.



However, some people, me included, will obey the 20mph, thus slowing down other traffic. Anything that slows traffic in Midford & Hinton is to be welcomed, in my opinion.



Neil mentioned that, if a majority in Midford supported the idea, it would be reasonable to follow up the proposal. I am reasonably confident that everyone who lives along the B3110 in Midford would welcome such a move & I suspect that the same would be true for those in Hinton that live alongside the B3110.



I am not sure about the rest of Midford.



Would a canvas of the Midford residents along the B3110 be sufficient to get this proposal tabled as a simple introduction of a 20mph limit, as in my earlier email, without the nonsensical constraints of street lighting & speed humps?


posted by Cllr Neil Butters & BANES on 9 February, 2014 at 1:01PM

THE FOLLOWING IS AND EMAIL FROM BANES SENT TO CLLR NEIL BUTTERS AND FORWARDED TO HCPC FOR INCLUSION HERE:





Dear Neil







I realise that we have some rather more pressing concerns regarding the B3110 at present but Louise has asked me to advise on the points raised here.



The suggestion below concerns whether a 20mph zone could or would be introduced and what, if any, any physical changes which might be needed to enable this.







Please see below excerpt from the DfT doc ‘Setting Local Speed Limits’ (2013)







132. It may also be appropriate to consider 20 mph limits or zones in built-up village streets which are primarily residential in nature, or where pedestrian and cyclist movements are high. Such limits should not, however, be considered on roads with a strategic function or where the movement of motor vehicles is the primary function.







The B3110 is (whether this is locally popular or not) considered to be a strategic route which carries around 4000 vehicles per day. We would not therefore consider a 20mph limit to be appropriate in either Midford or Hinton Charterhouse. Our officers have spoken to police who are responsible for their mobile camera unit and they have categorically stated that they would not enforce a 20mph limit at either location. Accident records along here are encouragingly light also (although of course zero accidents is an ideal) with one slight accident recoded at each site in the last 3 years.







With regards the street lighting issue, DfT guidelines recommend that physical traffic calming is only used where there is street lighting in place, for safety reasons. Therefore any such traffic calming would not be appropriate for these sites (note Somerset HAVE used physical traffic calming on major roads without street lights, at Stratton on the Fosse and Norton St Phillip, which is just a bit down the B3110 but it should be noted that fatalities have occurred at both sites).







I hope that this clarifies the position.







Regards







Matthew











Matthew Smith



Divisional Director - Environmental Services

 


posted by PETER WHEELHOUSE on 9 February, 2014 at 1:09PM

THE FOLLOWING IS A COPY OF AN EMAIL FORWARDED TO HCPC FOR INCLUSION IN THIS DISCUSSION:



Hi Neil (& all),



Let’s deal with the issue of enforcement first. It is irrelevant to the discussion that the Police would not enforce a 20 mph limit because, for Midford at least, they refuse to enforce the 30 mph limit, claiming, so I have heard, that it would be too dangerous for their officers to do so.



The Council Officer has responded on the basis that it would be a formal 20 mph limit and I am sure that he is correct about the DfT guidelines.



What about an advisory 20 mph along the stretch of road, or at least the most dangerous parts. The bend in the road by Midford bridge is already quite sharp and is likely to be a bit sharper when the footpath is moved and some vehicles already take it at a speed that forces them across the double white line.



The argument about the lack of incidents is, in my view, totally spurious. It is true that the number of incidents in Midford is low and we want to keep it that way.



The presence of advisory 20 mph signs would at least make drivers aware that the road was potentially hazardous and some drivers would respect it.



Anything that slows down the traffic where there are pedestrians, even if only marginally, is to the good, both for the comfort & safety of pedestrians and from an environmental perspective.



The B3110 is a very busy road but it is worth noting that the majority of the traffic that uses it is from outside the B&NES area, quite often travelling to destinations also outside of B&NES.



One can always find arguments not to do something. It would be more reassuring if the officers had a more positive attitude and suggested ways to enhance the quality of life of residents (i.e. those who pay the officers’ salaries) rather than finding reasons to ignore our concerns.



I am still awaiting returns from my survey but preliminary results show that the overwhelming majority of residents would support the introduction of 20 mph through the village, even if it was purely advisory.



I am probably fighting a lost cause but what’s the real objection to having a 20 mph advisory speed limit through Midford for a trial period. It would not cost much to put up a few signs and we would then get some objective data about whether it would be a good method of traffic calming.



All the very best,



Peter Wheelhouse



PS to Chris.

Feel free to add my comments to the Parish website discussions. Unfortunately, my focus is on some personal matters that inhibit the time that I have available for other things.


posted by Nigel Parkes on 26 April, 2014 at 3:33PM

Although I'm not generally in favour of more road signs I wonder if one way to slow traffic would be to give priority to traffic (like they've done in BOA) coming up the hill past The Stag.



Traffic in this direction ought to have priority anyway by way of the cars usually parked in the road but I notice people in a hurry to get into Bath in the morning when they can't see over the brow of the hill, try and get into that space as fast as possible.



It might make road users think?



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